81: Word Tiles – Taiwo Omisore

Taiwo Omisore:
Most apps is all about retention, right? And I made an app that is meant to be deleted. You play it for five to 10 minutes, see where you are on the leaderboard, share it with your mates, and then you delete it and you get on with your life. Life is short. So, I wanted to make a small experience that people could really enjoy and crack on with their lives. And I think I've managed to do that.

Charlie Chapman:
Welcome to Launched. I'm Charlie Chapman, and today I'm excited to bring you the prolific mobile game designer behind 1 Chance, Word Tiles, and more, Taiwo Omisore. Taiwo, welcome to the show.

Taiwo Omisore:
Thanks for having me.

Charlie Chapman:
I am super excited. We've come across each other many times over the years actually at this point, right?

Taiwo Omisore:
Yeah, we have. And I think every single time, it's in a different place under different circumstances, but it's always really, really cool to hang out in real life because I'd followed you for a long time on Twitter and you know what they say about never meet your heroes or people that you look up to and stuff like that. And you just keep coming back into my life. So, no, no, no. It was always, always a pleasure, never a chore. And yeah, I'm super stoked to be here today.

Charlie Chapman:
I can't do this podcast without mentioning it. At the risk of becoming the talk show and talking about baseball too much. One of my favorite things about you is we met in London. I don't think we really, other than the internet, we didn't really know each other and came to the realization that you are a St. Louis Cardinals baseball fan.

Taiwo Omisore:
I'm a big, big time fan and it's a small world. I love the emblem with the birds. And yeah, baseball isn't a thing here in the UK. So, yeah, I was super stoked to hear that you're actually from there and yeah, just really, really, really cool. Small world.

Charlie Chapman:
Oh yeah. You can imagine how excited that was that somebody's even heard of St. Louis, much less knows our baseball team. Before we get too far into that, I'll kick things off with the three questions I always ask to let everyone get to know you before we talk about all your mobile app games. And those three questions are, where are you from? Do you have a formal education related to what you do? And then I want to hear about your career that led to the point of you making mobile game devs.

Taiwo Omisore:
Born and raised here in the UK in London. Do I have a formal education? So, I studied interactive programming at an arts university, so a little bit different. So, growing up, my two favorite subjects were always maths and art, which is both ends of the spectrum. So, I thought I would do a computer science degree at an art university. And as you can imagine, there wasn't that many people doing the course. So, we got to know each other all very, very well. And yeah, my final project was around accessibility in video games, something that I'm really passionate about.

Charlie Chapman:
How did you get to the point from that to mobile game dev? I mean, it seems like it could be a short step.

Taiwo Omisore:
Yeah. Yeah, but it's quite a long winding story. So, I'm going to give the short version of it. So, after I graduated, I was working for a grocery company here in the UK called Tesco in the bakery. And then I moved to the head office and I was doing various roles there, but my commute was three hours long. So, it was an hour and a half to get there, hour and a half to get back. So, I had three hours every single day to kill, 15 hours a week. So, I had quite a lot of time. And I decided to make an app. I had an iPhone and I was really into love games and I thought, why not make an app? Use the skills that I got from uni, watch some YouTube videos, buy a book and just make an app.
So, I made an app, took me about six months to build. But as I was building it, I was also posting about it on Twitter. And I don't know, I think I just wanted to be held accountable. I think I just thought if I post about it, then I've got this history documentation, digital footprint of the things I was doing so I could always look back into it. And also if I wasn't doing it, I would be held accountable. So, it was like two-pronged. So, I thought, let me do it. Let me just post about it and just talk about small increments of progress I was making. So, I built this in Unity. So, it was on iOS and at Android.
And I loved the whole process, but I think one thing that it really taught me, because my commute was so long, I would ask people on the train to play test the app. So, when I had a working vest a couple of months in, yeah, I would go up to people on the train, they would be having their downtime, their moment of calm before them.

Charlie Chapman:
I was about to say, I mean, I feel like a thing I hear often from people outside of the US, but especially the UK, when they talk about Americans, is that when we're waiting for an elevator and me, I'm the type of person that's like, "Oh, how are you doing?" You just get this look like, "Oh my God, why are you talking to me?" I feel like especially in a commute setting, were people just horrified or were people pretty receptive to you talking to them?

Taiwo Omisore:
Do you know what? It was a mix. I think initially people would always be really confused because it's such a perplexing, unique thing to ask, "Hey, I'm building an app. Do you mind trying it?" Because most people would think maybe you're...

Charlie Chapman:
Trying to sell them something.

Taiwo Omisore:
Yeah, trying to sell them something, but I was like, "Here's my phone. Can you please play this game for 30 seconds and just give me some feedback?" But everyone I asked was really nice and would give really good feedback, really honest feedback. Some person might say, I remember this really vividly actually. Someone just said, "How do I make it stop?" And I was like, "That's actually a really good..." Because there was no pause. It was like you just had to wait until you run out of time. And I was like, okay, yeah, I need to add a pause button into it. Yeah, I hadn't thought about it. I showed it to family and friends and they hadn't mentioned it.
So, it was great to get this unbiased, impartial feedback from people that I didn't know and didn't have to be nice to me. And most of the feedback I got was critical, which was great. I didn't want to hear. It's great because it wasn't great. It was really, really bad. So, I persevered with that, released the app to...

Charlie Chapman:
And what was the app? I mean, it was a game, but what was this game?

Taiwo Omisore:
Yeah, so it's called SpaceBots. It's still on the App Store. So, the first version took me about seven months to build from scratch to out in the App Store. And a couple of years ago, I actually rewrote it just because the phones are just a lot better now. And it took me...

Charlie Chapman:
In Unity again or...

Taiwo Omisore:
Yeah, in Unity. And it took me a couple of days and it just showed the advancements of my skills from going from seven months. And I tried to just upgrade what I had already, but I looked at the code and was like, "I'm just better off just starting from scratch." So, I just started from scratch and it's just way more optimized, way better. And it's got a special place in my heart because it was the first app that I made, and it started the ball rolling. And then I got the bug and then I just kept making more and more apps.

Charlie Chapman:
What was the actual release like? You got the bug. Was it because you were making money, you were seeing that real people were using it, or just the sense of accomplishment from releasing it?

Taiwo Omisore:
I think it was all of the above. I think I released it. I got a Twitter DM from a guy from Italy actually, and he said that there was a bug. When you get to a certain point, the app would crash. And I just thought it was so amazing that someone in Italy, a different country, had downloaded my app, played it, and noticed this bug and then told me about it. I was just so blown away. I think the fact that you can come up with an idea, I've still got the post-it notes with the drawings of the SpaceBots and how the app would look. And then after a couple of months, you can have it on the App Store that still really blows my mind. I barely made any money from it.
It had one banner ad at the bottom of the screen, and I was using the ad platform called iAd. I got a check sent, which I never cashed just because it was the first bit of internet money. It was like nothing. It might've been $5 over the course of a year. But just the fact that I had something out there that I could tell people, "Hey, you want to download my app? It's on the App Store." So, huge sense of accomplishment and pride. So, yeah, all of the above, the fact that you can release something, the fact that it's just an amazing creative outlet and that it could be enjoyed and used by people from around the world.

Charlie Chapman:
That's awesome. So, then you're still working at the little tiny mom and pop shop known as Tesco. Now you're just like, "I want to make more of these games and put them out there just because it's an enjoyable hobby sort of"?

Taiwo Omisore:
Exactly. Yeah. So, I continued working there trying to get into a more technical role. So, I was working as a buyer, so helping buy products for the stores in Central Europe, and I just wanted to do something a little bit more technical that didn't really go to plan. So, I left that position and then went to a company, an advertising company actually as an account manager. I applied for a technical job, but they gave me a job as an account manager, which surprisingly wasn't technical. So, left that job and got my first proper tech job working for a company called Unruly. They are an ad platform as well based on the web, but looking to do stuff on mobile as well.
So, they were really interested that I was making these apps on the side.

Charlie Chapman:
That were using ad platforms?

Taiwo Omisore:
Yeah, exactly, exactly. So, they were like, "This is really cool. We would love you to join the team." And it was great because I could work on the projects on my apps and all the skills that I was gaining from that really helped the day job as well. So, it was a really mutually beneficial situation to be in. And I learned lots. The team was a great team, learned a lot of really technical things.

Charlie Chapman:
What were you doing primarily there? Were you working on SDKs for the apps, or is this more on the backend?

Taiwo Omisore:
Yeah, so a bit of both actually. So, my official title was solutions engineer, so working with different clients, but also in house to build maybe a test platform to run an AR campaign. So, maybe the user's got an iPhone that has got an AR compatible device. They could click on an ad for a furniture company and then drop a piece of furniture into their space to see how it would look like in that space. So, hey, here's a advertisement for a sofa, but how does it look in your house? Just click this link and you can open up your camera and see how the sofa would look in your house.

Charlie Chapman:
So, is that when you started learning native iOS development?

Taiwo Omisore:
Nice little segue there. So, that was the time when I was learning Swift. I was like, "Cool, I want to learn Swift." I built an app called Who Am I? Just as a starting platform, I was like, "I want to build an app that is really simple. What's the most simple thing I could do is ask someone a question. Who are you? Is it a philosophical question? Is it a question that's deep meaning?" However, you want to interpret that question, I was just asking people. As you can imagine, there was a bit of back and forth between the Apple review team that were...

Charlie Chapman:
Yeah. Is it just one text box?

Taiwo Omisore:
So, it's a little bit more. So, when you download the app and you go through the onboarding, it says, this is the largest or hoping to be the largest digital exhibition, intertwining physical art and digital art. So, when you download the app, you've got two options. You can answer the question, look at what people have said or look at a digital map to see where all the people that have answered is from. And most of the people that download it, they just have a look at what other people have said, but a lot of people take part in it. And after the app was released after about six months, I actually had an exhibition. So, I had a physical exhibition in London where I had some iPads around.
So, people that were just coming off from the street could come inside, look at what other people have said. So, I would print out what people said with their picture and what they answered, but people could take part. And every single day in the evening, I would print out all of the new ones and then replace those. So, the next day, so it was always an ever-changing exhibition. So, every single day

Charlie Chapman:
What was the physical thing you were printing out? Were you attaching it to a sphere or something or...

Taiwo Omisore:
Yeah, no. So, I was printing it out on A2 paper, so large sheets of paper, and I was putting them inside frame. So, there was 10 frames within the space and every single day of just 10 people that took part that day would be the 10 people in the exhibition the following day.

Charlie Chapman:
So, you have to rent out studio space for something like that, right? Or is this part of some event with people you already knew? What are the logistics behind this?

Taiwo Omisore:
Yeah, so this was really interesting. So, living in London, sitting with almost 10 million people, I thought this would be the least of my worries. I thought, "Oh, I'll be able to rent out a space really, really easy."

Charlie Chapman:
Yeah, real estate, famously very cheap in London.

Taiwo Omisore:
Yeah, exactly. I thought, "Oh, no problem. Easy-peasy." So, actually what I had done is I emailed all of the local authorities, so all of the different councils within London, and the one that got back to me, so there's 30 something councils in London. The one that got back to me was the one that I actually live in, which is fantastic. Great.

Charlie Chapman:
So, this is a local representative for your ward if you were in New York or something.

Taiwo Omisore:
Exactly, exactly. So, I guess Brooklyn, Queens, all the different boroughs. And so, there's 30 boroughs in London. So, I contacted my local borough and they said, "This is a fantastic idea." They were like, "This is great that a local developer's made this app and they said I can use this space." So, they gave me the space. They said I could have it for a week. I didn't have to pay for anything, but under one condition, they said I had to host a class, like an intro to programming class at the end of the week. And I was like, "This is great. I love talking to people about apps and technology." So, it was great. So, I had the exhibition for a week.
At the end, I had an intro to programming class and about 20 people came to that, which was great, but the age range was really interesting. The youngest person was seven and the oldest person was 81, which was amazing. And loads of people had lots of questions. It was really, really, really cool.

Charlie Chapman:
I feel like the idea of going to a public class of some kind is something that people under the age of probably 40 or maybe 30 never experienced. You know what I mean? I wouldn't even think to look at a bulletin board somewhere or whatever. I think classes you'd take that are free are online, but when you go to an Apple Store, you know how they do all those sessions, you always see a much older crowd there. And I think it's because this idea of just like, "I want to get better at using the tool I have." Probably the same thing exists for weed whackers at Home Depot or whatever.
The idea of going to a local place to learn from an expert directly is, I think, a super valuable asset that communities can have, but most younger people probably don't even know those exist.

Taiwo Omisore:
It was a real kind of humbling experience, to be honest, to see the reasons why. I think maybe some of the more mature in the audience, they wanted to learn because they wanted to keep up with maybe grandkids. Some of the younger people, a lot of them would be interested in video games. It was one of the reasons why I got into software engineering as well. So, it's great to see the reasons why people want to learn a little bit more about software engineering. And it was cool. It was really, really, really great. And the council were really supportive for the whole endeavor. And I'm pretty sure it might be the first app to have a physical exhibition, but I've got lots of pictures.
I need to do something to highlight and show the exhibition. I took loads of photos and loads of videos of just now.

Charlie Chapman:
When was this? This would've been a while ago, right?

Taiwo Omisore:
Yeah, this would've been maybe 2018, 2019.

Charlie Chapman:
Okay.

Taiwo Omisore:
Yeah, so a couple of years ago, but it was great fun. Lots of people that I hadn't seen for a long time came through and yeah, it was a lot of fun.

Charlie Chapman:
Ah, that is very cool. Okay. So, you made that. I'm guessing there was no business model, that was just a free art.

Taiwo Omisore:
No, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, more ads, no in app purchases. Yeah, completely free.

Charlie Chapman:
And at this point, you have a series of games that you've released, and then they have ads in them, but this is not coming close to being your full-time gig at this point, I'm guessing?

Taiwo Omisore:
Definitely not, no. So, yeah, all of the apps that I made. So, Who Am I? I believe was app number six. The previous five all been games. So, I had SpaceBots, I had SpaceBots Match, Tick Tock Tap, Cube Sprint, and something else. I can't remember.

Charlie Chapman:
The number? You have quite a few of these are still available.

Taiwo Omisore:
I think all of my apps, I haven't taken any of them, so there should be 15.

Charlie Chapman:
But yeah, SpaceBots, SpaceBots Match, Cube Sprint, Tick Tock Tap, and The Number maybe. Because MultiWords is coming up, but I feel like that was one of your bigger ones.

Taiwo Omisore:
Yeah, yeah. That came a little bit later. Yeah.

Charlie Chapman:
At this stage, this is not just a little side hobby, this is more than that. So, I'm curious, what's the transition to that point?

Taiwo Omisore:
Yeah, so it all happened with my app that you mentioned right at the beginning, 1 Chance. So, 1 Chance came out in 2020, and that was the year things really changed. 2020 was a very pivotal year, a year that I think a lot of people are not going to forget. And so, yeah, I released an app called 1 Chance. It does exactly what it says on the tin. So, you open up the app, it tells you that you can only ever play it once. There are 14 mini-games that you play back to back. It'd be quit out of the app. You can't play it again. When you finish, you can't play it again.
So, you literally have 1 Chance to play and then at the end, your score gets uploaded to a leaderboard and you can see how you can pair with people from around the world.

Charlie Chapman:
And where did this idea come from? I'm just curious.

Taiwo Omisore:
Yeah, great question. So, the idea came from, I was looking at the data from people playing my apps and most people would play it once or twice. I would have the occasional couple of users who are Power users who really enjoyed what I made and would keep coming back. But the majority of people, there's so many different games coming out from big studios. Why would anyone want to play a game made by me? And a lot of them were just like experiments. So, I just said to myself, why don't I lean into that? If people are only going to try my app once, why don't I make it a really, really cool experience and really put the pressure on and make it an app that you can literally only play once. So, it stemmed from that.

Charlie Chapman:
And did this also have ads in it?

Taiwo Omisore:
So, yes. So, the way this one was monetized is you play the 14 games, which normally takes between five to 10 minutes, and then you would see an ad before you got your results.

Charlie Chapman:
Which as a just pure business model, a single ad impression per user would require a significant amount of users coming in to add up to any amount of money, right?

Taiwo Omisore:
Exactly, exactly. So, one complaint that I've never received from this app is about ads. For the many, many people that have played it, no one's complained about the singular ad that they see after playing for five to 10 minutes.

Charlie Chapman:
Knowing that business model and then hearing you say that this changed everything, what happened when you released this app?

Taiwo Omisore:
So, I released the app and every now and again I would check on App Store Connect, just like how many people have downloaded it.

Charlie Chapman:
Do you do a big splashy launch or you just pushed it out there maybe...

Taiwo Omisore:
No. So, two things actually. So, I released it on TestFlight and I posted it on the TestFlight subreddit and a lot of people actually got in touch. A lot of people said, "I really like the app. It's really cool. Thanks for making it." And I normally post my stuff on TestFlight just on the TestFlight Subreddit to get feedback.

Charlie Chapman:
So, did this one feel different than the other games?

Taiwo Omisore:
Yeah, it felt different because a lot of people signed up to be beta testers for this and someone called Tony from Canada and I was looking at the scores coming through and I looked at the end of the day and it was Tony and he got 50%, and then it was Tony iPad and it was like 55%. And then it was Tony's wife's phone. And I just thought it was hilarious because this person, Tony, had just tried so many, every device. So, I was like, "Oh, maybe the fact that...

Charlie Chapman:
That's a good signal. Yeah.

Taiwo Omisore:
Yeah, yeah. So, I was like, hmm, if Tony is hunting for devices to play it on because he can only play it once, maybe I'm onto something. And then one day, I had tons of downloads from Germany and I was like, "This is really random. It's only in English, hasn't been translated." And I messaged a coworker who was based in Germany and I said, "Oh, do you mind having a look on the App Store?" And he just sent me a screenshot and the app was on the front page of new games that we love. So, I was like, "Whoa, this has never happened before." And then fast-forward a couple of months, I got some correspondence from Apple. Someone from Apple said that they really enjoyed the app.
And if I was interested, would I be up for talking about the development process? And I was like, "Yeah, sounds great." So, we had a conversation, they said to me, "We would love to get some professional pictures of you if you are up for it. We're going to have our professional photographer. We can pick you up. We'll do your hair and makeup." And I was like, "Nah, I'm all right." Just because I don't like a fuss being made about me and anything like that. So, I said, "Really appreciate it, but I'm okay." And I spoke to my mom. My mom said, "Wait a second, so a company want to pick you up. They want to do your hair and makeup. They want to take professional photos of you and you're saying no because of what?"
And I was like, "Yeah, you're right." So, I messaged them back and I said, "Yep, not a problem. We'll sort it out." So, had that, which was a surreal experience and then...

Charlie Chapman:
So, you went to a professional photo shoot basically?

Taiwo Omisore:
Professional, professional photo shoot, which was just really surreal. It was a whole day. It was like a day of different clothes and all of this stuff. It was a whirlwind. And then a couple of months later, someone that I went to primary school, so I guess, would that be elementary school, messaged me at half five in the morning and said, "It's so great to see that you're doing so well. I just saw you on the App Store." And I was like, "This is really weird. You just saw me on the App Store."

Charlie Chapman:
Is that not what you were expecting to happen eventually?

Taiwo Omisore:
To be honest, I think I really didn't know because...

Charlie Chapman:
You thought it'd be on some internal magazine or something?

Taiwo Omisore:
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Charlie Chapman:
Okay.

Taiwo Omisore:
I really didn't know where it was going to go. And then I opened the App Store and then the first thing you see is me, and I actually just dropped the phone and I just burst out laughing because I was so emotional. It was just all of these feelings and I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it. This was quarter to six in the morning and I was just in shock. It was not even games or whatever, but it was like the Today page.

Charlie Chapman:
Yeah, it's the Today page with the block that's dedicated to a story. And then it was an interview with you as well, right? So, it wasn't just your picture, it was actually talking to you about the app and the process.

Taiwo Omisore:
Yeah, it was a real surreal moment to go from the situation of making apps on my commute and for full transparency, I've never worked. So, the job that I had where I had the flexibility to work on that, I was a solutions engineer, and then I worked as solutions engineer for another company, and then most recently, I was working as a solutions consultant. So, I've never worked as a software engineer. So, that imposter syndrome of being on the App Store front page, talking about how to get into apps and games and talking about the apps and games that I've made for someone who's never professionally worked and who's had a lot of doubt was just really confirming to me about this crazy journey that I've been on.
And I'd never received so many messages from friends and family and old teachers and old colleagues and...

Charlie Chapman:
Yeah, everybody that's like, "Oh my gosh, I know that person."

Taiwo Omisore:
It was crazy. And it just showed me the impact of the App Store because I make apps, I go on the App Store quite a bit, but just I guess for the casual person to go on it and be like, "Wait a second, I know this guy." It was really, really surreal and one of the most incredible moments in my life. So, yeah, so it was a very, very special app.

Charlie Chapman:
At that point, you said that was a few months in. Was the app doing well? Was there a lot of users? I guess it would all be new users coming in except for the people that are hunting up extra devices.

Taiwo Omisore:
Exactly. Yeah, no, the app was doing far greater than I would've ever imagined. And I think at that point it had hundreds of thousands of people had played it. So, you would go onto the leaderboards and there'd be hundreds of thousands of people on the leaderboard that had given it a go and people would send me messages of group chats.

Charlie Chapman:
That's the thing. The viral nature of it is I think the genius in that when you do it and you're done, the only thing you can do at that point is share it with your friends to see what they get. That's the whole point, right? It's one of those, I forgot what they call it, but the private social movement or whatever, where everybody went from Twitter into private DMs and stuff. That is probably where it spread the most. You don't have actual visibility into any of that.

Taiwo Omisore:
Exactly. The only visibility I have of that is when people send me emails saying, "You destroyed my marriage." Yeah, I get a couple of those every now and again, which is very comforting to hear. So, super passionate. No, most of it is very positive. And then went on to translate it into different languages, because that was the number one piece of feedback I was getting from people that were playing it in around the world. I really enjoyed it, but English isn't my first language. And if you're only going to have an experience once, you want to make sure that it's great for everyone. And a lot of the people that translated the app would just reach out to me on social media.
"I really enjoy the app. I would love to translate it into German or Spanish or Japanese or Korean or Danish." So, it's in loads of different languages now.

Charlie Chapman:
I imagine it's easier than your other apps just by the pure nature of it's a very limited in scope game. The amount of copy has to be less than some of the other stuff, right?

Taiwo Omisore:
There actually is quite a lot of copy because there's a flag game, so you need to choose the country. So, all of the countries need to be translated. There's also an animal game with all the animal emojis, so all the animals need to be, rather than it being more like, I action-based where it's just move and fire. Each one of the 14 games, there is a bit of text and there is randomness. It's not set because I wanted to make the experience really varied. Even if someone managed to play it on 10 different devices, the experience should be different for each one of those devices rather than the same. So, I put a lot of effort into that one-time experience.

Charlie Chapman:
So, then the localization and then especially the Apple feature, did that accelerate things even more?

Taiwo Omisore:
Yeah, 100%. So, I think the feature on the App Store, and then a couple of months later it got Game of the Day, which was really, really, really cool as well. So, to go onto the Games tab and see it's hard because the core gameplay mechanic is just the fact that you play it once. The replayability, the retention is unsurprisingly very, very poor. I'm honestly blown away by the reception of the app and people play it, hundreds of people play it every single day.

Charlie Chapman:
Do you see spikes and then a tail as the sharing mechanic works its way through new people?

Taiwo Omisore:
To be honest, it's pretty stable. It's been stable for years, which is crazy. I wish it would make more money, but I'm happy that people are enjoying it. I think the emails and the reviews left on the App Store and the correspondence that people have shared, the discourse with group chats and stuff like that between friends and family and colleagues is just like, "This is so cool that I built this thing and people from around the world are enjoying it so much." And when I built it, it was never about the money. It was always about building something that was a little bit different. An app that you can only play once, that is crazy because most apps is all about retention, right?
And I made an app that is meant to be deleted. You play it for five to 10 minutes, see where you are on the leaderboard, share it with your mates, and then you delete it and you get on with your life. Life is short. So, I wanted to make a small experience that people could really enjoy and crack on with their lives. And I think I've managed to do that.

Charlie Chapman:
Okay. So, that brought in some amount of money that was real, but you're still probably not, well, especially not once the giant wave dies down, not enough to let you quit your day job and make this a full-time thing. So, what did you do going from there then?

Taiwo Omisore:
Yeah, so after that app, I started making apps with subscriptions. So, I made a game called MultiWords, and this is a really simple Word game, Word games at that time. So, this is 2023 were very popular. I released a game called TaiWord, which is just my name with RD at the end. And then I made a better version of that called MultiWords, and that was subscription-based. So, it was my first subscription-based app. So, it was completely free, but if you wanted extras and to have no ads, you could pay a very small subscription fee to get the pro version of the app.

Charlie Chapman:
And what was the thinking there? Because you had no ads in this one at all.

Taiwo Omisore:
The free version did, and then the pro version didn't have the ads and also allowed you to do a couple of things. So, you were able to shuffle the letters and you would get hints while the free version, you didn't have that, and you would see an ad at the end of the game day session.

Charlie Chapman:
So, what was the motivation for adding the subscription in then?

Taiwo Omisore:
I guess I just wanted to try it out. I'd been so focused on just making free ad supported experiences. I thought if people really wanted to support me a couple of quids every single month or a year based on a subscription to support someone that they enjoyed using their apps, it was like, let me see what happens. And I think the day it came out, a few people subscribed. I'm guessing it's like friends and family, I don't know. And then one person subscribed in Canada. And then I was like, I don't know that many people in Canada. I've got some family, but I don't even think they know I make apps, so it's probably not them.
And then I was like, "Hmm, maybe I'm onto something like this experiment is maybe going somewhere." So, I got the bug and then I released seven more apps after MultiWords and just really enjoy making games, experiences.

Charlie Chapman:
Got the bug meaning, because you were already into making games at this point, but all of these had a subscription model or a hybrid subscription ad model going forward. Did it work, created a sustainable income for you?

Taiwo Omisore:
Yeah, I think it's really interesting because each one is an experiment. Some are doing a lot better than others. So, I released SpaceBots, then SpaceBots Match Tick Tock Tap, Who Am I? TaiWord, 1 Chance, 10 Games, Qwiz, MultiWords, The Number, Simple Sudoku, My Journal, and Of The Day. So, 15 apps in total. And I think after working on MultiWords, I fully lent into the hybrid model, like you said. So, free, but if you want additional perks or features, you would go for the subscription model there. And I think when I released my app called 10 Games, which is a daily brain training game, it initially had 10 Games. So, it'll be 10 Games that you play every single day.
So, I'll be heavily inspired by the brain training games on the DS, which I really enjoyed when I was younger. So, I thought I'd try and make one for the iPhone and iPad, and people really enjoy that. So, in terms of the apps, people really enjoy it. They play it every single day. There's a leaderboard, so you can see how your daily brain age compares to people from around the world. And yeah, just kept taking small bets. So, I released a Sudoku app called Simple Sodoku. I really got into Sudoku. So, I was like, "Hey, why don't I learn something new and make a Sudoku app?"
And I really got into the weeds about the algorithms for building Sudoku puzzles, how to classify an easy puzzle to a medium puzzle to a hard puzzle, spoke to many different people on the Sudoku forums, which was really great to do as well and say, "Hey, I'm building this app. What do you think?" And just getting feedback and then building a journaling app. I got into journaling, so I built an app called My Journal and I use it every day to journal. So, just things that interest me and then just releasing it to the world and seeing if people enjoy it as well. And I think it's just really, really cool that it can go from idea to App Store.

Charlie Chapman:
You've mentioned before that you are full-time indie now, right? Was there an app or an idea that got you to this point, or was it you're building up this collection of apps that all have a decent amount of users and recurring income, and then all of a sudden you look back and you go, "Oh, collectively, this is enough to sustain me at this point?"

Taiwo Omisore:
Yeah, definitely a combination of the two. So, I think when 10 Games came out last year, so it came out in 24, after a couple of months of that coming out, it got featured by Apple in the UK and Ireland, and people seemed to really enjoy it. I think in comparison to the other brain training games, it had a couple of unique points. And I think one of them was there was a multiplayer game, so you could play a game locally. So, if you had one iPhone or one device, you could play together, which I think people really enjoyed. I think people really liked the word and fact of the day. So, every single day there's a word and a fact of the day.
And that was really enjoyable to research the facts and the words because I've always gone for more obscure words and maybe lesser known English words, all of that together people really resonated with. So, after a couple of months, I looked at how well the app was doing and I was like, maybe this has got some legs. And then releasing some other apps afterwards, like you said, all of these small bets that I had in total, I looked back and said, "Yeah, this is something that I think I can go full-time."
And it's super scary to go on this journey, especially after so many years of doing, but I think it's the right thing to do because now I can put 100% of my energy and my focus into this and growing this as a business, which is really, really weird for me to even say because it doesn't feel like a business. It just feels like I'm doing something that...

Charlie Chapman:
Something that happened to you?

Taiwo Omisore:
Yeah, exactly. And something that I don't see myself as a business person, or anything like this. I just see myself as the nerdy guy who likes building stuff and turning my crazy ideas into apps.

Charlie Chapman:
How has that changed things? I've heard people say everybody works at a company and has this dream of going indie. And I've heard a lot of people say, you go indie thinking like, okay, now I can put all my time on it. And then you look back and you're like, "I feel like I'm getting the same amount done I was before, but I'm just doing other things all the time." Is that your experience or do you feel like it really helped you accelerate?

Taiwo Omisore:
A hundred percent. I think it's definitely helped me accelerate. So, in the year that I've gone fully indie, I've made four apps. So, I made the Simple Sodoku at the beginning of the year, which was a lot of fun to make. And then I made an app called Of The Day, which is a daily learning app. So, every single day you open it and you get a new fact, a new words, nature, dog, cat, and most recently advice. So, users can submit their advice to the app. So, you can get a piece of wisdom or live hack or whatever from people around the world, which is really cool.

Charlie Chapman:
Oh, interesting. Is there a moderation issue there?

Taiwo Omisore:
Yeah, so I'm looking at all of the things that people send. And so, this feature came out a day ago. No one has sent a piece of advice yet. So, the feature that is really, really, really popular is the pet of the day. So, every single day I highlight a pet from around the world.

Charlie Chapman:
But you're manually picking that?

Taiwo Omisore:
Yes, exactly. Yes. Yeah. So, people can upload pictures of their pets.

Charlie Chapman:
In a world where everything is this automated or AI or whatever, there's something about curated experiences that is special in a unique way that's hard to replicate. Just the knowledge that there's a human and at least most of your apps, you have an about page that has you and says who you are. So, people, if they're invested, they know who you are. And knowing that this person picked this and is featuring it adds this layer that's hard to replicate.

Taiwo Omisore:
Yeah, exactly. And I think what is really interesting on that is whenever people send me a picture of their pet, I mean, they're always absolutely adorable. I'll email them back saying, thank you for using it. The number one thing that people mention is, "I can't believe it's just you."

Charlie Chapman:
They assume it was some heartless corporation in a random other place in the world.

Taiwo Omisore:
Exactly, which is just crazy, but it's a really positive and heartwarming signal to me that people just say, "Wow, I can't believe you made this by yourself. I told my wife, husband, significant other, grandkids, whoever about this app, I love using it. I can't believe it's made by one person." So, it's really heartwarming to hear that, which is amazing. And then I followed that up with Qwiz, which is just a really simple puzzle game where you get 10 questions. Everyone in the world gets the same 10 questions every single day, and you get to see the leaderboard at the end and it's based on country.
So, you can see, "Hey, 50 people played in the UK and the average score was 70%, but hey, a hundred people played in Nigeria and they got 80% or 20 people played in South Africa." And I think people really like the fact that it's the same 10 questions, so you can compare and contrast against family members or colleagues. And it uses all of the game center features, so activities and challenges. So, you get notifications when you beat someone on the daily challenge, which I think people really, really like.

Charlie Chapman:
Most of your games, if not all of them, are very native feeling. You're utilizing a lot of iOS features. Like you mentioned, you're using widgets. They feel grounded in iOS. Is that a choice from a design perspective or is that more like you enjoyed working in Swift and so that's where you naturally landed?

Taiwo Omisore:
Yeah, I think it's definitely the latter. I think I really enjoy working with Swift. So, going from UIKit to Swift and Swift UI has been really interesting for my own personal development and seeing where I can go with gaming on a platform that isn't really suited for gaming is also a really fun challenge for me as well. I really like Unity. I like the fact that you can export to both, but I move so much quicker just using Xcoders for Few Eyes. So, I think for the foreseeable, although one of the questions I get asked a lot is Android when question works. But as a one person team, I think it makes sense to just stick with one.
Things might change in the future, but at the moment, I think this is where all my time and effort is going to be.

Charlie Chapman:
So, like we've said, you have a lot of apps you've been building over a long period of time. Obviously, and you even mentioned you've learned a lot with each app that you can bring to the next to help you build faster or build better, but what about on the business side of it? Are you thinking about that? Have you learned a better way to launch an app or a better way to grow an app after it's come out?

Taiwo Omisore:
Yeah. I think for me, one of the things that I've learned the most is not being afraid to talk and show the app. I think if I take of the day, which the daily learning app that I told you about, and also Word Tiles, my most recent app, those apps have really leaned into publicly talking about these apps more. I think the last time I really had done it was with my first app, SpaceBots, which was many years ago now. So, leaning into that.

Charlie Chapman:
And when you say publicly, you're talking about publicly promoting it while you're building it or what do you exactly mean there?

Taiwo Omisore:
Yeah, so talking about it publicly as I build it on social media, but also creating content around the apps as well to highlight to people, "Hey, I'm building this particular app." And I think one thing that's been really helpful in that is social media because I can talk about Of The Day. And I think Of The Day is a great example because when people see it, they get it. It's like, okay, you swipe and then you get a fact, you swipe and then you get a recipe, you swipe and then you get a film. So, it's a really simple app, but you need to see it. And then you're like, "Oh, okay, I download it and I get all of these things and I can pull it as widgets as well so I don't even have to open the app. This is really cool."
I don't have a lot of time, but I've got enough time to swipe and scroll through 25 different of the days. Amazing. And the same with Word Tiles. Word Tiles is a word game, but the USP I think is the fact that you could play locally with up to a hundred people. And I recently went out in London and different parts of the UK with a table and a banner and my laptop. And I was building in public, but IRL, literally building my app in public and people would download the app and then we would have a multiplayer session. It might be a family, it could be a couple, it could be a group of friends. They would all download the app and then we would have a multiplayer game. It could be up to six people all playing with the same words. Who can find the most words?
And if they win, they win a prize. And it was great just to get feedback from people and they would take that experience and tell their friends or make content around it.

Charlie Chapman:
And you've been doing this before just Word Tiles in some degree, where on TikTok or Reels, you have a microphone and you're out in the world and you're asking quiz questions to people sometimes more directly connected to your app. Sometimes, it's just like fun TikTok content and Word Tiles like you just described, you'd set up a table and you were like demoing the app to people in real life and getting their reactions and everything. Obviously, just knowing you and watching you do this, you enjoy. It's fun, but it's also, I imagine a lot of work. What is the main benefit you're getting to the app from this?
Is it, do you think bringing in new users who are watching the content online, is it about the people you're sharing it with in Leicester, Square, however you say that, in London or in the subway or wherever where you're doing this? Or what's the strategy or is it really just it's fun and then you see you're just seeing what happens?

Taiwo Omisore:
Yeah, I think I was nodding throughout you saying all of that because I think everything that you said is like... I really like it. I really like going out. Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely an introvert, but I think in situations like that, I'm so passionate about apps that I love just hearing what people think about apps and how they use their phones and what apps they hate and what apps they really like. So, going out into the public with my microphone and asking people, I think normally people are quite surprised, A, to maybe talk to someone that works in the app space.
People use apps every single day, but then when you have the opportunity to talk to someone who does it full-time, people often have a lot to say, "Hey, I really don't like the way this particular app does this thing." And asking people questions like, "If you could build an app, what app would you build?" Everyone's got an app in them, everyone's got an idea of an app that's going to change the world. So, I think that's really, really cool. And I really do enjoy it. It's a lot of work. You get a lot of nos. And I think people, friends and family who've gone out with me to help film and stuff like that say, "Wow, you get a lot of people saying no."
But the people that say yes and agree to talk and have a chat, that just far outweighs the nos. And I don't take it personally, people have got places to go.

Charlie Chapman:
But what's the main benefit you think you're getting from it?

Taiwo Omisore:
I think it's twofold. I think the number one thing people say back to me is like, "This is really interesting," or, "I didn't know that this goes into it." Especially when I showed people the code when I was building in public, I would say, "All of this code is just to send the score to a leaderboard." And I'm like, "Whoa, that's a lot of code."

Charlie Chapman:
So, you're educating about what's going on behind it?

Taiwo Omisore:
Exactly, exactly. And one view might have 1,800 lines of code and they're like, wow, that's a lot of code just for a simple view and to break down everything that's going on. But then the second thing is also the educational piece. Every piece of content that I'm making and people see, more likely than not, people are going to be using their phone to consume this. So, they're like, "Hey, this is an app that I'm consuming this, and this is someone who builds something." It's like the weird kind of Meta behind someone making an app and seeing that on a device for that particular thing. So, I think people also really enjoy that.
And the messages that I get from people basically every single day really confirms that people do like seeing this, like a peek behind the curtain.

Charlie Chapman:
It's built up a following on... Is it Instagram or TikTok mostly?

Taiwo Omisore:
Both really. Both, but mainly TikTok.

Charlie Chapman:
TikTok. Okay. So, you're building up a brand or whatever you want to call that on TikTok. Do you think that's feeding into the games then?

Taiwo Omisore:
Definitely. Yeah, yeah. So, I can see that with written reviews on the App Store and just the increase of numbers. And I think you can also see it when you look at conversions because the conversion rate will be higher because people are searching for the app. So, it'll be like, okay, well, the conversion rate for this app is 80%. So, clearly people are going onto the apps to look for this app. The intention is there. So, I think it definitely helps. And once it's there, it's there forever.
So, even though you might not see a spike of downloads immediately, people will come back to it and see, "Oh, hey, you made this app called Of The Day and it seems really interesting, or this is something that I think my partner would really like. I'm going to tell them about it."

Charlie Chapman:
But what's interesting is, and I know this is like a content strategy if you're trying to build a brand versus just a single video that takes off. But a lot of the videos, you're not really pushing an app. You're having fun asking questions and maybe you're wearing a shirt that has your logo or you're at a table that has the logo. And sometimes you are literally using the app, like the Word Tiles ones. But even then they don't feel so much like they're ads for the app itself. But I guess the idea is if people are having fun with it and then they're engaging with it more, then the more they just see the stuff, it's like a YouTuber who monetizes their audience by releasing some products.
It's like the YouTube channel isn't about the products, but it's like by that point, they enjoy the stuff you're doing and that's a way to engage in another thing that you're doing.

Taiwo Omisore:
Exactly. I think that's exactly what I have always set off to do. I think people downloading my apps and engaging with my apps is a byproduct. I think fundamentally, I'm there to educate and talk and lower the barrier, get a peek behind the curtain of what app developers do. And because of that, because of the content that I've made online, I've been invited to go to schools, which has been great. So, I've been to schools all around the country. And the feedback that I get from parents that contact the school after their children have seen me talk or do a workshop is, I didn't know my son or daughter could do something like this.
I didn't know that something like this is a viable career choice and my child will not stop talking about this person that... Which is awesome because I think when I was at school, I would've loved to have seen someone talk about computers and games is really accessible. Most people can play a game and understand it. And when you show them the code and say, "Hey, this is the thing that makes the player move faster, or this is the variable that makes the player jump higher," people can really get it and I'll say, "Oh, hey, if I want to make the player jump smaller, how would I do it?"
And they'll change the number from eight to four. And it's like, "Oh, now they jump half as high." So, people really get it. And for me, I love video games. So, making video games seems like, to do it for a living seems a bit crazy, but here we are. So, I think the vision with the social media has always been to help educate and highlight the joys of making software. But also the reality, it's not all sunshines and rainbows. And for me, it was app number seven that really took off. It's not going to retire me anytime soon. So, I think it's always about being completely transparent, being open and honest about the realities of software engineering and app making. And I think people really appreciate.
I think people appreciate someone being genuine. A lot of people say, "Wear my heart on the sleeve," whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, I'll let you be the judge of that. But I think people appreciate it. I think people really appreciate I'm not selling them a dream and saying this is the best thing ever. And it's going to be hard. There's going to be ups and downs. It's lonely as a independent app developer, but the community, the amazing community definitely makes it a good thing to be a part of. But I think people appreciate being genuine, but also just the educational piece as well.

Charlie Chapman:
All I was told was ask him about the Harry Style story, and that is literally all I know. So, what's the deal here?

Taiwo Omisore:
So, I was beta testing one of my apps called My Journal, and because of it, I was going a different way to work. So, I was walking to work, but I thought, let me just go a different way. I was taking pictures and saying, "Oh, I really like this thing and just writing in My Journal." And then...

Charlie Chapman:
So, you're walking and typing on your phone?

Taiwo Omisore:
Yes. Yeah. Walking and typing and taking pictures and recording audio, just putting the app through its paces. And then I turn around and then I see someone who looks like Harry Styles. So, I say, "Hey, Harry." And he looks at me and he's listening to music, he takes out one of these headphones and was like, "Sorry." And I was like, "Oh, sorry, really sorry to bother you." Just saying, "Hey, and I really like the song as it was." And then he took the other headphone out and was like, "Oh, thanks, thanks." And he was like, "Oh, what are you up to?" And I was like, "Well, actually I'm a software developer. I'm actually trying out my app."
And he was like, "Oh, cool. What's the name of the app?" So, I said, "My Journal." And then he got his phone out and went on the App Store and I was like, "Oh, it's not out at the moment." And he said, "Oh, what's it about?" And I told him what it was about. And I was like, "Oh, do you want to give it a go?" So, he gave it a go and was like, "Oh, I really like the colors and what you've done here." And unbeknownst to me, so he was talking for a couple of minutes at this point. And then I said, one of the things on the app is all about giving advice, if you could give advice, what would it be? And he gave me two pieces of advice, and I think they're both really important.
And if I can share them with the listeners of Launched, I think it'll be really cool. So, the first thing he said is, "It's better to have hard conversations because you'll have an easy life, but if you want a hard life, you have easy conversations." And I took a step back and was like... And he gave some examples of having difficult conversations. It's difficult at the time, but in the long run, your life will be better for it. But if you keep things, sweep it under the carpet and don't really talk about these big things, in the short term, you might have an easy life, but these things always come out at the end.
So, it's better just have the difficult day today and then in the future, things will be better than... And I was like, I think that's solid advice. And there was something on my mind that I was putting off and I was like, "Oh, just do it." And then he said another thing that is I think really important, and especially in today's world, and he actually put this on the app. So, I was like, "Oh, do you mind just putting this as a journal entry?" And he did. So, he recorded saying, "Catch people being good." And what is meant by that is to tell people when they're doing cool stuff. He was like, normally we tell people, "Hey, well done, congratulations." Or give people thanks on particular milestones.
So, maybe getting married, having children, buying a new place, getting a new job, but he said, "We don't do it enough. Why does it have to be at those particular things? Why can't you just call someone that you haven't spoken to in a while and say, thank you for being my friend, or thank you for getting me through this hard time, or I appreciate you being in my life." And he was like, "Is there someone that you haven't spoken to in a while?" And I was like, "It's a few." And he was like, "Call him up." I was like, "Well, give him a call right now. Tell them how much you love him." And I was like, "Oh, okay." And then at this point, I was like, "I'm really sorry, you probably got places to be."
And he was like, "Oh no, I'm just on my lunch." But at this point, there was a big group of people just watching us talking in the street and then he gave me his contact details said when the app is out, let me know. I'd love to download it. We had a hug and then we departed ways and it was just a very wholesome, nice meeting.

Charlie Chapman:
That's so crazy. It's also an incredibly tie interaction, right? I know that this is supposed to be a story about Harry Styles and how down to earth he is or something, or maybe not down there, how elder wisdom or whatever. But I hear that and I think, yeah, that would happen to you. You're a person that people want to talk to. And I know you probably don't feel that because you're used to strangers being like, why are you coming at me with a microphone and walking away? But I think you can only get away with the thing you do because you're so approachable, I guess, is the thing. You are fun to talk to and not intimidating to talk to.

Taiwo Omisore:
That is very kind. Thank you so much. And honestly, that's music to my ears. And to be honest, I really like talking to people and getting to know people. And I told people about it and they were like, "Oh my God, how did you do it?" And I guess when you enjoy doing it doesn't seem like at all. I don't even think about doing it. He's a very busy person. I didn't really realize how many followers he had across social media is actually quite insane. We had a conversation for 15 minutes on the street, and it's no different from the conversations that I have with people talking about apps. And I think what was really cool about it was just probably questions that he doesn't get asked a lot, if ever.
Because when you take a step back and you really think about it, he was giving me some unsolicited advice as well, which is really cool to like, "Oh, actually there was this other thing as well," which is just really cool. It really shows that A, he cares about the question that I asked, but also the time because I'm sure when I said, "I'm sure you've got places to be," he probably had places to be, but it was a really nice moment and yeah, it's a very, very nice guy. But yeah, no, he recorded that. It's on my app, My Journal, yeah, Top Bloke.

Charlie Chapman:
One of the things with this whole show is I tend to be just as interested in the lead up to the app itself as I am the app itself, because I like to think that a lot of people out there listening right now are all along this journey. So, there's plenty of people that are, they've released multiple apps, none of them have taken off and they're like, "I guess this isn't for me." But you were how many apps in and that would've been exactly where you were. And then there's definitely people that I've had on this show that the first app they make somehow catches viral and then they're on this crazy rollercoaster.
Everybody's journey's totally different, but I think that's a good thing to hear both for somebody who's in that phase where they think things aren't working and also somebody who's wanting to get into this to be like, "You're not just going to throw something out there and just start reaping all these millions of dollars." That's not really how this works. Personally, I love hearing everybody's different stories coming in. And so, that's ultimately what the show is about, even though the launched in the title usually happens maybe halfway through the show if we're lucky. I think that's just as fun of a story. But then everything that happens afterwards obviously, obviously is good too.
We are at about time here and I want to make sure we have time for the question I always end this show with, which is who's a person or people out there that have inspired you in your work that you want others to check out?

Taiwo Omisore:
So, I have a couple of people. So, number one is a guy called Sean, Sean Donnelly. He is an incredible app developer. He's app personal best, is a great fitness tracker. I think he really leans into best practices when it comes to Apple. I think the app is really polished. It's helped me on my fitness journey as well, and he's just a top loak. So, he inspires me and pushes me to be a better app developer. So, definitely if you have a chance, check out Personal Best. I think another person is Lena Stockton. She is a developer in Germany. She won a Swift Student Challenge a couple of years ago.

Charlie Chapman:
Yeah, I met her at WWDC.

Taiwo Omisore:
Oh, good times. Yeah, super talented app developer. Just crazy, crazy, crazy, talented. And then lastly, Josh Newton, he released an app called Orbit, which is a subscription tracker, but he is a designer and then moved into app development. And you can just see that in his at Orbit because it just is very, very beautiful. So, your subscriptions are like little moons around your planet. So, you can see visually, while I've got a lot of subscriptions, I need to cut back. So, putting all of my subscriptions into that app has saved me a lot of money. So, thank you, Josh. And it's just beautiful to look at. Something is mundaneous subscriptions. He's made it look very, very beautiful.
So, there just a few people. I think a lot of people inspire me, but yeah, it's a hard question to answer.

Charlie Chapman:
No, that's perfect. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on. It's always a delight to get to hang out with you, and it's good to finally do that in recorded form.

Taiwo Omisore:
Honestly, it's been an absolute pleasure. You are a absolute legend and it's been a fantastic experience. Really appreciate you have me on.

Charlie Chapman:
Awesome. So, where can people find you and your work?

Taiwo Omisore:
I am Taiomi. So, that is T-A-I-O-M-I. So, the first three letters of my first name and the first three letters of my surname at most places. But you can just go to taiomi.com as well and you can find out all my information and links to socials, but I'm Taiomi on most platforms.

Charlie Chapman:
Awesome. Well, thank you again for coming on and I'll see you somewhere else in the world in the future, I'm sure.

Taiwo Omisore:
Maybe at a St. Louis game?

Charlie Chapman:
Oh, that's the dream, man. You got to come. Come to Busch Stadium.

Taiwo Omisore:
Okay, okay. And then you can come to Selhurst Park to watch your Crystal Palace game.

Charlie Chapman:
Ah, that is more the dream, if I'm being honest with you. We got to make that happen. We got to make that happen.

Taiwo Omisore:
Okay, we'll make it happen. You heard it here first. We'll make it happen.

Charlie Chapman:
All right. All right. Yeah. All right. Well, I'll see you sometime in the future.

Taiwo Omisore:
Definitely. Take care.

Charlie Chapman:
You too.

Thank you so much for listening. You can find more Launched at launchedfm.com, and you can find me on pretty much all the social medias. I'm @_chuckyc on Twitter or CharliemChapman pretty much everywhere else. And of course, huge thanks to RevenueCat for making this episode and all future episodes of Launched possible. I'll see you all again in two weeks.